Jesus says:
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto ME, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of MY Father which is in heaven. Many will say to ME in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from ME, ye that work iniquity.
*****
Many church works are works of the iniquity of the flesh of the humans rather than being authored by the Spirit of God.
Here are several examples of fleshly works done in church groups, "in the name of Jesus."
*****
Juliett Walton … Member of the Body of Christ
At one time I attended a church group in Denver, Colorado (USA). The church building was newly built and was to be "dedicated". A TV preacher came to dedicate the building.
(Is there an example in Bible in New Testament of a building being dedicated?)
This TV preacher laid hands on the inside walls of this building. Also several people stood near the walls in various areas and laid their hands on the building. (I just sat there and watched.)
(Is there any example in New Testament of laying hands on a building?)
***
Matthew 24:1-2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
(All these buildings made by hands will be destroyed in the end times.)
***
II Peter 3:10-14 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
***
(We do not dedicate a building that is destined to be destroyed but rather we dedicate ourselves to the calling and service of God.)
Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
***
Juliett report: Trip with her church group to Jerusalem
At one point, I went on a trip to Jerusalem with this church group from Denver. Here are some of the things I recall from that trip.
* A few people on this tour chose to be baptized in the river Jordan. Pastor baptized them.
I did not do this because it was not important where I was baptized.
***
* Small
groups of people were allowed into the "burial site of Jesus". I went
in but chose to stand back and watch the others. Some people put their
hands on the area of the tomb.
I chose not to do this.
As we went out of this area, there was a sign on the door that said "HE is not here: for HE is risen."
To me this was saying:
"Why are you here"?
(No need to travel across the world to "believe". Holy Spirit is inside me to direct me. Faith is important, not fleshly touching this or seeing that.)
Luke 24:5-6 Why seek ye the living among the dead? HE is not here, but is risen:
***
I chose not to do this.
As we went out of this area, there was a sign on the door that said "HE is not here: for HE is risen."
To me this was saying:
"Why are you here"?
(No need to travel across the world to "believe". Holy Spirit is inside me to direct me. Faith is important, not fleshly touching this or seeing that.)
Luke 24:5-6 Why seek ye the living among the dead? HE is not here, but is risen:
***
* The Jewish Wailing Wall is
there at Jerusalem. Within the cracks, where
bricks were set, these areas between the bricks were filled with bits
of paper upon which were written prayers of people praying at that
wall.
(But we must pray to God through Jesus.)
Also Jesus tells us to worship God "in spirit" and in truth.
John 4:21-24 Jesus says: The hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship HIM in spirit and in truth.
The Jews today don't even believe in Jesus as they use that wailing wall.
(Comments by Joan Boney … Before I was born again, I went to Japan to study a famous method of violin teaching. At one of the shrines which we visited, they had a tree where people would hang scraps of paper on the branches. It was explained to me that these were prayers made by people to their god. Reminds me of this Wailing Wall.)
Jesus says: ... No man cometh unto the Father but by Me. (John 14:6)
(But we must pray to God through Jesus.)
Also Jesus tells us to worship God "in spirit" and in truth.
John 4:21-24 Jesus says: The hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship HIM in spirit and in truth.
(Comments by Joan Boney … Before I was born again, I went to Japan to study a famous method of violin teaching. At one of the shrines which we visited, they had a tree where people would hang scraps of paper on the branches. It was explained to me that these were prayers made by people to their god. Reminds me of this Wailing Wall.)
Jesus says: ... No man cometh unto the Father but by Me. (John 14:6)
*****
Joan Boney … Member of the Body of Christ
I got to do many "fun" things at the prayer group which I attended when I was a new Christian in 1975.
For example: Four of us from this prayer group went to homes to deliver demons out of the houses. It was great fun and we got to see some wonderful houses, but of course it was very non-scriptural, for demons do not live in houses made by man. Demons live in people! But we didn't know that at the time.
***
In rehabilitation hospital, I met a young therapist who told me he had just built a new house. As they were framing his house, his church group came to the house and wrote scriptures on the framing boards which would be covered by sheetrock.
I asked him what were the scriptures ...
He replied, "I don't know. I didn't read them."
Pam Padgett … member of the body of Christ
In the 1980's, an announcement was made that the singles group, from my church group, was going on a trip to Guymon, Oklahoma, to "minister" to a church group there.
(Guymon is 262 miles from Edmond, a 4-1/2 hour drive one way.)
That evening I talked with the woman who was letting us stay at her home as well as to Linda.
The other woman from the singles group clearly did not want to talk with any of us. She made it known that she didn't like staying at that house while her friends were staying at other houses, so she just stayed in her room.
Terrible!
(This is supposed to be the church on a ministry trip! She acted worse than most secular people.)
The next day, we were to attend the Guymon church group's service and "minister" there. I asked what this meant to "minister", but no one seemed to know. It turned out that we just sang a few songs at the church service.
This trip was in September, a hot time of the year in Oklahoma. We rode a total of 9 hours on rough-riding school buses with no air conditioning. And then we didn't know what we were there to do to "minister" when we got there!
But the thing that disturbed me the most was the complete lack of even common friendliness and kindness in the church people in this singles group. There was certainly no evidence of the Holy Spirit or love of things of God or love of people of God.
I had wanted to be with people of God, but these people in this church group were not people of God. There could be no fellowship in the Holy Spirit with them.
I did not try to attend any more singles group meetings or events, but Linda Moore and I remained friends.
I was raised going to the Catholic church and attending Catholic elementary school. We were taught to do several fleshly things that have no basis in the Bible.
* Lighting candles. As I recall this was somehow associated with praying. The concept I had as a child is that it would help the prayer to be heard. This is not in the Bible.
Here is what we are told in the Bible about our prayers being heard by God ...
I John 5:14-15 And this is the confidence that we have in HIM, that, if we ask any thing according to HIS will, HE heareth us:
And if we know that HE hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of HIM.
***
* A few times as a child I recall my mom sending my sisters and I to take an envelope to the rectory where the priests lived. Inside the envelope was some money with a request for the priest to "say a mass" for a person or for a situation my mom was very concerned about. The ritual of "saying mass", which is the service done each day in the Catholic church, is not in the Bible.
***
* As we entered the main part of the Catholic church building, there were vessels, either on a pedestal or attached to the wall, on either side of the doorway. These vessels had what we were told was "holy water". We were told that the "holy water" is water a priest has said a prayer over, making it holy.
We were to dip our fingers in the water, and then touch our forehead, then stomach, then left shoulder, then right shoulder. This was called "making the sign of the cross".
Although I did this each time I entered the church building, I have no recollection of why we were to do this. And there is nothing in the New Testament about doing any of these things.
As I was recalling these fleshly things we were taught to do in the Catholic church, I was reminded of the following:
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship HIM must worship HIM in spirit and in truth.
We can't worship God with fleshly works.
Additional examples of fleshly works of church goers:
* While on radio in Lubbock, Texas, I told story of a miracle which I believed to have been performed by God at the house I was building.
This house overlooked the golf course. There was an upstairs room where I wanted to have contractor add two windows which would overlook the golf course green. But contractor said he could not do that.
A few days later, I saw there were two openings in the framing exactly over that golf course area.
I said to contractor, "I see you decided to add those windows I wanted."
Contractor replied, "No … Last night the wind came and blew those openings into that part of the framing."
(It was exactly the size I wanted on that area and it was in the exact place where I wanted these two windows.)
I said, "Well then can you put windows there?"
Contractor said, "I guess we can."
A woman heard me tell this miracle and she contacted me and told me she planned to go see this house where the miracle occurred. I asked her not to do that. The story told the miracle. It would benefit her nothing to go see the house. It would just be fleshly.
I feel this way about trips to Jerusalem.
By the way, Jerusalem should not be called "The Holy Land." Jerusalem is anything but holy.
In the Bible, it is the "new" Jerusalem that God refers to as "holy".
Revelation 21:1-5 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and HE will dwell with them, and they shall be HIS people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And HE that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.
I got to do many "fun" things at the prayer group which I attended when I was a new Christian in 1975.
For example: Four of us from this prayer group went to homes to deliver demons out of the houses. It was great fun and we got to see some wonderful houses, but of course it was very non-scriptural, for demons do not live in houses made by man. Demons live in people! But we didn't know that at the time.
***
In rehabilitation hospital, I met a young therapist who told me he had just built a new house. As they were framing his house, his church group came to the house and wrote scriptures on the framing boards which would be covered by sheetrock.
I asked him what were the scriptures ...
He replied, "I don't know. I didn't read them."
*****
Pam Padgett … member of the body of Christ
In the 1980's, an announcement was made that the singles group, from my church group, was going on a trip to Guymon, Oklahoma, to "minister" to a church group there.
(Guymon is 262 miles from Edmond, a 4-1/2 hour drive one way.)
I signed up to go on this trip, wanting to meet and be with other Christians.
I
went to the church parking lot at the appointed time and found 2 or 3 yellow school buses (non air conditioned) which would take us to Guymon.
I entered one of the buses, sat down and began trying to talk with some of the people around me, but it soon became apparent that they were not at all interested in talking with someone they didn't know. They just wanted to talk among themselves.
I entered one of the buses, sat down and began trying to talk with some of the people around me, but it soon became apparent that they were not at all interested in talking with someone they didn't know. They just wanted to talk among themselves.
I
noticed one woman sitting a few seats back and she had tears streaming
down her face. I didn't know her but was about to go sit by her and see
if I could help her when someone else sat next to her.
People
at the church group in Guymon opened their homes to let us stay with
them. Two other women and I were assigned to stay at one woman's
house. One was the woman I saw in tears on the bus. Her name was Linda Moore.
The other woman from the singles group clearly did not want to talk with any of us. She made it known that she didn't like staying at that house while her friends were staying at other houses, so she just stayed in her room.
Terrible!
(This is supposed to be the church on a ministry trip! She acted worse than most secular people.)
The next day, we were to attend the Guymon church group's service and "minister" there. I asked what this meant to "minister", but no one seemed to know. It turned out that we just sang a few songs at the church service.
This trip was in September, a hot time of the year in Oklahoma. We rode a total of 9 hours on rough-riding school buses with no air conditioning. And then we didn't know what we were there to do to "minister" when we got there!
But the thing that disturbed me the most was the complete lack of even common friendliness and kindness in the church people in this singles group. There was certainly no evidence of the Holy Spirit or love of things of God or love of people of God.
I had wanted to be with people of God, but these people in this church group were not people of God. There could be no fellowship in the Holy Spirit with them.
I did not try to attend any more singles group meetings or events, but Linda Moore and I remained friends.
***
I was raised going to the Catholic church and attending Catholic elementary school. We were taught to do several fleshly things that have no basis in the Bible.
* Lighting candles. As I recall this was somehow associated with praying. The concept I had as a child is that it would help the prayer to be heard. This is not in the Bible.
Here is what we are told in the Bible about our prayers being heard by God ...
I John 5:14-15 And this is the confidence that we have in HIM, that, if we ask any thing according to HIS will, HE heareth us:
And if we know that HE hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of HIM.
***
* A few times as a child I recall my mom sending my sisters and I to take an envelope to the rectory where the priests lived. Inside the envelope was some money with a request for the priest to "say a mass" for a person or for a situation my mom was very concerned about. The ritual of "saying mass", which is the service done each day in the Catholic church, is not in the Bible.
***
* As we entered the main part of the Catholic church building, there were vessels, either on a pedestal or attached to the wall, on either side of the doorway. These vessels had what we were told was "holy water". We were told that the "holy water" is water a priest has said a prayer over, making it holy.
We were to dip our fingers in the water, and then touch our forehead, then stomach, then left shoulder, then right shoulder. This was called "making the sign of the cross".
Although I did this each time I entered the church building, I have no recollection of why we were to do this. And there is nothing in the New Testament about doing any of these things.
As I was recalling these fleshly things we were taught to do in the Catholic church, I was reminded of the following:
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship HIM must worship HIM in spirit and in truth.
We can't worship God with fleshly works.
*****
(Comments by Joan Boney)
Additional examples of fleshly works of church goers:
* While on radio in Lubbock, Texas, I told story of a miracle which I believed to have been performed by God at the house I was building.
This house overlooked the golf course. There was an upstairs room where I wanted to have contractor add two windows which would overlook the golf course green. But contractor said he could not do that.
A few days later, I saw there were two openings in the framing exactly over that golf course area.
I said to contractor, "I see you decided to add those windows I wanted."
Contractor replied, "No … Last night the wind came and blew those openings into that part of the framing."
(It was exactly the size I wanted on that area and it was in the exact place where I wanted these two windows.)
I said, "Well then can you put windows there?"
Contractor said, "I guess we can."
A woman heard me tell this miracle and she contacted me and told me she planned to go see this house where the miracle occurred. I asked her not to do that. The story told the miracle. It would benefit her nothing to go see the house. It would just be fleshly.
I feel this way about trips to Jerusalem.
By the way, Jerusalem should not be called "The Holy Land." Jerusalem is anything but holy.
In the Bible, it is the "new" Jerusalem that God refers to as "holy".
Revelation 21:1-5 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and HE will dwell with them, and they shall be HIS people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And HE that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.
***
* A woman told me this story: She bought a cemetery site which could be used for her own body after she died. She and her pastor went to the cemetery to have "the Lord's supper" (crackers and grape juice) at the ground above the place where her grave would be. She was very excited over doing this.
I was horrified!
The Lord's supper in the Bible has to do with the eating and drinking of the Word of God and has nothing at all to do with crackers and grape juice.
There is great benefit to correctly partaking of the Word of God. There is no spiritual benefit to crackers and grape juice, it is only fleshly.
So the entire "event" at this woman's future grave was fleshly and meaningless.
II Timothy 3:1-7 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
***
* In the 1980, I encountered two Baptist women who were planning a trip to a grave yard to decorate graves for Memorial Day.
I was very shocked to find women who professed being Christians planning to go to decorate graves.
What type of testimony is that to the resurrection provided by Christ?
I Thessalonians 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (dead), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep (dead).
For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep (dead).
For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
As Christians we should not be participating in acts which are set up by pagans.
***
* My cousin told me this story.
Her neighbors had a cook out and invited her. She went but was terribly embarrassed to find these neighbors, two men, were getting married that day at that cook out. My cousin said she wasn't properly dressed for a wedding.
I was shocked and replied, "What you should have done is fled that homosexual wedding, showing your disapproval of them, not your apology for the way you were dressed for homosexual acts which are ungodly."
Romans 1:26-28 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
***
* I attended a dinner at a university museum group where they had seated me next to a man who was wearing the largest cross that I have ever seen around his neck.
This man identified himself immediately as the former pastor at Indiana Street Baptist Church.
And he went on to tell us they had a terrible problem at the church.
He said, "We have so many people attending the church that we just don't have room to seat all the people. We have added onto the church building many times, but still don't have enough room to seat everyone."
I replied, "If you will begin to teach that which Jesus taught … a man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery … then you will not have a seating problem for about 1/2 of the people will get up and leave you and you will have plenty of seats."
This former pastor was shocked!
I got up and fled, not staying for the meal.
Matthew 5:32 Jesus said: whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
*****
Concerning all the fleshly church works that humans do ...
Jesus says:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
*****